Sick of 10s and Whining
Are you a 10 man only raider? Yes?? Guess what? You made the decision. There is no gap. 10 is not meant to equal 25. There has to be a gap. If 25 man gear was on par with 10 man gear 25 man bosses would be impossible. If 10s man gear was on par with 25 man gear it would make each boss fight trivial. There is no point to this argument. It has its reason. A person may not like it, but there are a lot of things we all don’t enjoy.
In my opinion 25s are and always will be better than 10s. “But 10s are tighter?” Misconception. I’ve been in 10s and seen the “tightness”. It just led to division as cliques developed just the same as 25s. I raided TBC in a very tight 25 man guild. We were closer at the end of TBC than any 10 man guild I’ve ever seen or heard of. The idea that 10s are closer is and always will be a lie perpetuated by people who haven’t been in a close-knit 25 man raiding guild. Ending raiding with my 25 man raiding guild took me near a year and leaving server has severed great friendships. Don’t even say most 10s are closer than 25s.
“But 10s have less drama!!” That makes me laugh so hard. There is drama in every guild. The best guild masters know this and deal accordingly. No, guild has less drama than another. It is how their leadership deals with the drama. My 25 man raiding guild only ever had one major drama event. It ended with some split friendships and /gquits, but that’s the test of any guild.
“10s are harder because of fewer people.” While I do agree to some extent the fewer people make some fights harder on most fights the fewer number do not matter. The few fights were it do matter are normally almost as hard on 25 man. Hey, my first Yogg experience was 10 man Yogg with a friend of mine’s 10 man guild. It was a fun experience and I will never forget it, but I know the difficulty stepped up quite a bit in 25s. Having more people made it even more difficult in 25 Yogg. With 10 you had much more control of the situation.
“But I pay $15 a month!!!” So do I. And I’m sick of the loss of challenging content I saw before real life and other in-game events took away my ability to raid. I want a challenge. Where’s my challenge? You want “equality”. We do not get every thing we want. I wanted my own 25 man raiding guild to hit Cataclysm with and you see where that went.
This is my barely legible and probably not too well explained rant over WoW for the night. Is it that well constructed? No, but I have my points and I will stick to them. Just as I cannot change the minds of many of you nor can you change mine. I will always say 10s should be a step behind 25s. If you are upset with me that’s okay. As people have said we will have to agree to disagree.
Blizzard, keep the gap. It’s there for a reason. You will realize you have made a grave mistake if you decide to try and remove it.
Cheers!
Of Claws and Paws 
“If 25 man gear was on par with 10 man gear 25 man bosses would be impossible. If 10s man gear was on par with 25 man gear it would make each boss fight trivial.”
Care to elaborate?
It’s simple math. “Raid DPS” * “seconds to enrage” need to beat “boss health” – how’s that different?
Of course you have to factor in better raid buffs, and *current* 25 bosses are not tuned, but I’m not seeing why 25 would be harder with, say 3-4* as much health compared to 10man…
That would’ve been like doing Brutallus in TBC in Kara gear. That was impossible. The math may seem simple, but it would affect it more than most would think.
It’s still just math and play-testing; you can absolutely arrange new 25-man and 10-man content to be challenging in equal gear.
I understand your complaints about what this would do to the end-game culture, but not why you think balancing the content this way would be infeasible.
Blizzard and balance don’t go together. Check the history of pvp in WoW. Has it ever been balanced? Nope. Blizzard continually tweaks and listens to constant complaints over some classes’ abilities or overall play style.
Even in Vanilla raiding there was no balance. You were one spec and one spec only outside of a couple classes. Paladins, Druids, and Priests healed. To do any thing else was laughable. So Blizzard decided to change this and bring some sense of equality among all specs in TBC. Even so some specs were left behind. Balance druids were only useful for a crit aura and their dps was decent at best. Wrath has been Blizzard’s second attempt to correct these problems. Has it worked out? Some would say yes. Others would say no. I’m in the middle. Yes, in many ways it seems to have corrected problems, but in many other ways it has leaps and bounds to go.
I don’t Blizzard will ever fully balance healing, dpsing, tanking, and pvp. There are too many classes, scenarios, and other issues that make it practically impossible.
And I do miss the end-culture of TBC. Maybe add more 10s dungeons and it would’ve been perfect. Although if you continually wipe in Karazhan for over a year that’s your own fault. I think Blizzard has given too much to people who give little effort.
Again just my opinions and thank you for the reply!
I’m trying to figure out what brought this rant up. Hmm… to be honest many of the things you claim people say all the time are things I’ve never heard. We all generally understand that 10s are lower than 25s, that in THEORY it’s easier to get a tight, cohesive group out of 10 people than out of 25…
Some guild drama or something? Or just been reading too many posts by whiners on the WoW forums? 😀
The problem with theories? They can and are unproven by facts. Plus a lot of times you don’t hear everything nor pay attention to every issue brought up by WoW players. Hell, I know I don’t. If I did I’d end up in more debates than I already find myself in. lol
I speak from my side of experience and know that many will disagree. Many will also agree. That’s the matter of opinions. We all have them, but some are more controversial than others. I believe that any tight knit guild is a rarity. The average guild is not tight knit. No matter how much they try to advertise themselves as such they have cliques and drama(Al has only been in 4 guilds, but with all my alts I have experience in more guilds). On top of that the likelihood a guild will stick it out past a few months to a year is rare. I’d more than argue the amount of tight knit 25 and 10 guilds is about the same. The problem will always be finding one without looking like a guild hopper.
My issue was with a blog I stumbled upon. I will not name names nor will I call the person out. I enjoy the rest of their blog, but had serious disagreements with the person’s post and their commentators. Some may why didn’t I just get it all out in the open? Well would you want to start a whole entire debate in their blog? I’d hope not. I’ve done that a few times and only a couple times has it turned out okay. So I’ll keep the person secret and just say I disagree strongly with their point of view on the issue.
Thanks for the constructive reply!
what the hell?
I’m in a casual 10man guild and we have the time of our lives. I have no idea what prompted this rant but you come across as churlish for no particular reason.
It astounds me when people get up in arms over things that don’t even affect them. So what if there are 10man raids? Some people like it that way, I do fine in 25man raids but something about 10mans always seems more fun and less “grr 25mans are serius bizness”.
Don’t affect me? I’d say that’s someone having zero knowledge of the subject at hand. 10s can directly affect 25s. Why? One single word, balance. And that’s why I stated I’m against “balancing” 10s and 25s.
Please take the effort to read up on the subject and understand it before replying. Your lack of knowledge on the subject is rather offensive. Ignorance on a subject is never a good trait.
I can’t help but feel incredibly vindicated right now you smug little dick.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/news-2/cataclysm-raid-progression-refinements-193787/
Because Blizzard posts now this you believe it?? You are so naive and stupid. Last I checked nothing will ever be set in stone until it’s released. Where are the dance studios we were told about pre-Wrath? Oh yeah just blue posts.
Blizz goes back on its word more often than many companies its size. Go ahead jump on your soap box. Ride that high horse. It’ll come crashing down sooner or later. It always does, kid.
Pff someone’s in denial…
“Are you a 10 man only raider? Yes?? Guess what? You made the decision. There is no gap. 10 is not meant to equal 25”
I am guessing you missed the thread from “Blizzard” that says your wrong.
Blizzard obviously thinks that 10 man and 25 content is and should be the same.
I love everyone that starts off with ” Blizzard is going back on its word” Show me where it says they will always have 25 man content that is hard. doesnt exist.
Blizzard is always about turning a profit, believing they care about what you the individual think is the biggest joke going. simply put, if 1000 people say we want it this way, and 2 people say we like it as it, guess who is going to get their change.
Blizzard has 13 million subscribers, they need to please the maximum number of people with the lowest amount of financial output. (dev, qc, GM’s …)
So, if they are going to invest in content that only 1% is going
to see, it doesnt make economical sense and they surely wont hire more people to make new content if all they need to do is dumb down content.
if you have any doubts about the fact they are driven by profit, here is some simple math.
The weekend they launched the clear flying mount, a blue poster said there first 4 hours it was having trouble processing the 80,000 orders for the mount.
80,000 x 25$ = 2,000,000$
2 million in cash, and it maybe took 5 people to draw, approve and implement the thing?! and remember, thats without the Chinese market turned on yet.
Blizzard can say my opinion is wrong and what they wish to do all they want. The problem is it’s impossible. You can’t create a perfect balance between 10s and 25s. Different size groups need different things altogether, but Blizzard will try to convince its player base they can do it. That’s Blizzard’s right to make those promises. They’ve done it before. Check the promises to raiders about Ulduar. Then they went back and decided it was too hard and nerfed it consistently for the first few weeks. And please show me where Blizzard is this perfect organization that doesn’t go back on its word…I’ll be waiting.
I agree it’s about cash which is sad. That is what is continuing to ruin this game. Greed. It will continue with all businesses until Blizzard ends WoW and picks up on some other MMO or RTS. And to be honest this post is almost two months old now. Really don’t know why it’s being brought up unless you’re trying to troll. If so this will be my one and only reply. Otherwise have fun and have a blast in Cataclysm. Hell, I haven’t touched WoW in two weeks. 😉